• jules

    good piece again Shane. the story of how whisteblowers in cycling were and are received is arguably more important than what they’re exposing.

    • Michele

      100% spot on [again] Jules. For my mind, that’s the barometer we should be using to see how cycling is going in cleaning up it’s act.
      I’m pretty sure if Rider X from Team Y and said they, and other teams, have been systematically doping for the past Z years, I have some confidence that the general cycling public would, in the main, support Rider X coming out.
      I would like to think the peloton, in general, would as well. I’m not 100% convinced that would be the case.

      • jules

        it’s the same everywhere Michele, not just in cycling. the corporate world is the same. cheating, fraud, co-operative underperformance all flourish in an environment where it is the culture and everyone has a shared interest. try this experiment – at work, start pointing out random things that are not right and suggesting improvements. little things, or big things that would change fundamental aspects of how your organisation works. you’re just being constructive right? you’ll get crucified.

        • Michele

          Oh definitely Jules. Its called society.
          Couldn’t agree more.

          • jules

            this is why I’ve argued that doping is not the outrage cycling fans often treat it as. I don’t like doping, but it’s just another form of unethical behaviour that pervades our society. it’s more easily labeled and identified than other behaviours.

          • john johnstone

            Or more likely, the ruination of our society.

  • Nitro

    Fascinating reading.

    The question I’d love to hear answered (though I’m not so naïve as to expect there is one simple answer) – How would (do) the pros react today if (when) they hear of someone doping? Does the cloud of silence still exist, or has the internal culture really changed…?

    • Sean parker

      or just as pertinent, the fans (and the commentators) when ex-pros reveal their doping past.

      I’m still gobsmacked by the vitriol heaped upon Hamilton and Riis when they revealed the extent of their doping. They have done their sport, ultimately, a service – as did Kimmage – Even if they were not as virtuous as Obree.

  • Laurie12345

    Where does this leave Team Sky (Brailsford, Wiggins, and Froome)? Have they really reinvented the wheel, as the British cycling fans claim? Or is it a relentless continuation of what we know went before?

    • david__g

      Weird question/tangent there.

      • Laurie12345

        It is an open-ended article, clearly; it therefore begged the question.

    • Durian Rider

      Its big time pro sport.

      Dope if you want to cope.

      Simple as that.

      If you won’t then they will fuck you off and find an east bloc rider who will.

      Sure you can be pack filler in the peleton and be natty but you won’t be winning any big events against riders of similar physiology who are on EPO etc.

      • Laurie12345

        Thanks for answering the question in no uncertain terms. You sound to me like a professional athlete (certainly the ones I’ve come across).

        • Durian Rider

          Im definitely no pro rider but have trained with a few hundred over the years, sat behind the scenes with some big name coaches and been in the backs of friends cars/city apartments/clubs after the TDU after party with various famous riders and seen all I need to see and hear.

          Wattage doesnt lie and even Greg Lemond said something along the lines of ‘the only doping test we need is that everyone shows their morning weight and power files for that race!’.

          If you are doing 450w up the last climb in the heat after 200km of racing that day AFTER 14 days of HARD racing around France, hotel beds, transfers, dealing with press etc then its a no brainer what methods were used to get there.

          Its pro sport and fans want to see champions. Not fatigued people complaining about a saddle sore.

          Its hilarious to think people are surprised that big name athletes would take stuff from their team doctors so they can keep doing their job to keep their big $ contract and meet sponsors goals and preferences.

          If I offered you a million $ contract for 2016 and you had to do xyz what would you do? What if the doctor I put you in contact with was 10 years ahead of the testers?

          I still watch every stage on TV and love sitting on the roadside watching the bunch fly past. Ive never had a drivers license and never intend too. I also am not a naive fanboy like I was in the 90’s. Its pro sport and people need to earn a living so they have to do what is expected otherwise they are replaced by those who will. Sure you can earn 50k a year and be natty but if you want that big house on the hill… you gotta start taking that pill.

          • Laurie12345

            Nice one. You’re ringing so many bells here I’m surprised you’re not called Quasimodo. There’s nothing like being in someone else’s car to get the lowdown on the day and as for pumping out enough power to run an average house of an evening…what’s your take on the paper that Sky are releasing (today isn’t it)? Very topical.

            • Durian Rider

              The fact people have to wait months to release basic numbers is enough of a hunchback in uncertain terms like who you come across on forums like this.

              • Laurie12345

                Indeed. It is intuitive that ergo scores and so on are immediate. Rowers use them religiously to ensure their place in a boat and as bragging rights with competitors. Put simply, should an endurance athlete have sky high scores (pun intended), it can only be beneficial to publish widely.


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October 22, 2016
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