Infocrank-14
  • Echidna_sg

    Bit harsh on the asthetics me thinks. They look little different to cannondale, tune or rotor to me, which many like the look of. The use of magnets also read very negatively, but one that can be easily got around if you use an alternative sensor from garmin for example.

  • Hamish Moffatt

    Why wouldn’t a Garmin computer display the left and right power, given that they have it with Vector?

    • velocite

      My 510 does, as well as pedal smoothness and torque effectiveness.

      • I didn’t try the InfoCrankswith a Garmin device so nice to hear that pedal smoothness and torque effectiveness have been added.

        • velocite

          Of course I’m using Vectors. I assume that there is some common protocol for transmitting these fields adopted by the power meter manufacturers and depended upon by the head units, but I don’t know what it is. I don’t suppose it’s part of Ant+ – but maybe it’s an Ant+ add-on?

          • Alex

            The head unit has to support the ‘power profile’ of the device. ANT+ is simply the transmission method, now hot to interpret the data (the power profile).

            • velocite

              As I said in my post I assume there is some agreed way of communicating the various power fields between divers power meters and head units but I do not know what it is. Do you?

              • Matt DeMaere

                Alex actually answered your question.

                ANT+ is a communications protocol, part of which is the assumption that the receiver (head-unit) will know the specifics of a given transmitter (power meter). That includes all sorts of device types, but really becomes significant with the more esoteric devices like power meters, blood-oxygen sensors, etc. since they’re not all transmitting the same information nor do many consumers own them.

                A device profile acts to fulfill this role. “Bicycle power” is one such category, which along with manufacturer and device ID, has with particular definitions and optionals features particular to power meters. It’s up to the manufacturer to create this profile and get it certified by ANT+ (pay). Finally, the certified profile will/might get taken up by manufacturers of head-units (Garmin), which disseminate to users in a firmware update.

                • velocite

                  OK, thanks. So you’re suggesting that Garmin has to extend its head unit software to be able to process the Verve device profile? Even though the data might be similar? I hope that’s not right, and that there are common definitions.

        • inopinatus

          Confirmed. I have an Infocrank and the Edge 510 shows L/R balance correctly.

  • Alex

    Well priced? $2,000 for a power meter like this is insane when there are a lot of options at a lower price point. You point out that it’s trying to compete with SRM. Two things. One is that SRM has their brand name behind it and no one shopping at that price point will pick this over an SRM. Secondly SRM will be in deep trouble if they don’t do something soon. $2400 (USD) for a power meter that’s single sided and requires to be sent to a service center for a battery replacement is insane in this day and age.

    • Alex L

      SRM cranksets are also the ugliest thing out there since Cippo’s muscle suit.

      • Matt DeMaere

        Funny thing is, the distinctive appearance works perfectly with the established brand. Were they to radically change their headunit or crank, it would probably leave customers, on the whole, confused about perceived value.

    • Karl

      Single-sided is not quite the right term. SRM measures total output. Single-sided measures one side and estimates total.

      • Alex

        Ooops yeah I didn’t mean single sided. A better term would be lack of L/R.

    • inopinatus

      Wrong on both headline claims.
      1. You’re paying for two power meters, one in each crankarm; and
      2. I picked an Infocrank over an SRM. It’s a marketer’s conceit that everyone is blinded by brand names.

      • Alex

        1. That’s highly debatable. You’re still getting 1 power meter that’s on one bike. This just happens to do L/R balance.
        2. Enjoy your purchase. I’m not saying it’s not a good product, I just think there are better options given the price. I would never buy an SRM either.

  • Got em, sell em, love them…
    There are a few cheaper options out there but all the power meters not considered toys are in this price bracket. And they are a dam site cheaper than an SRM

    • david__g

      This is a completely ridiculous statement. Pioneer, Power2Max, Rotor, Powertap et al. can hardly be considered ‘toys’.

      • The pioneer, power2max and double sided rotor are all in the $1700-2000 bracket.. I’m talking about stages, single side garmins and the other budget meters…..

        • Matt DeMaere

          Reliability problems aside, a one-sided meter suffices for the majority of needs.

          If a unit provides a rider a consistent gauge week to week, it functions as a useful training device. Even if the response curve is not strictly linear, you can adapt to it.

          After all, the diligence of the owner is probably of larger significance.

        • david__g

          Ah, I see you say you sell the Infocrank. Makes sense you’d disparage all the other competitors I guess! And you can pick up a Power2Max for $610!

          • pauldr

            Power 2 max website shows the cranks at AUD $1,300 to $2,300 without chainrings or bottom bracket. Info crank includes chainrings and BB. I don’t see anything on their AUS website for $610??

  • Arfy

    The statement “We want to stop with the use of zip ties on bikes, and we want to integrate the technology into the bike” falls unfortunately short when you use reed switches and external magnets for cadence measurement. I’m really not sure why they didn’t go with an accelerometer, there are some nice highly accurate ones available these days.

    • winkybiker

      Yeah, eliminating zip ties is a noble goal, but this is half-assed. Sensing the rotation of the crank is arguably easier than measuring the forces, yet it often seems to be an afterthought.

      • Oldan Slo

        They brag about better accuracy by reading torque more times per revolution, but they only read cadence twice(?) per revolution. Integrating an encoder with finer resolution crank position measurement would have been trivial. I believe Pioneer did this. As someone who trains standing starts and acceleration drills, I wonder how accurate the device is in these circumstances.

        And no track model?

        • inopinatus

          They likely want to achieve all of the above. This is the first version of their product, you can’t solve all the engineering problems at once.

          • Oldan Slo

            By ‘good old whinge’ you mean a criticism of their marketing claims based on their technology, then yes.

            • inopinatus

              You can’t say there’s no track model and then complain that the model that isn’t sold for track use isn’t fit for track-specific training.

              Well, you can, but those two notions are logically exclusive. Choose one.

  • Mark

    As mentioned in the recent dcrainmaker review, the price is the problem. But that a “global price restructure” is being considered.

    • Verve reduced its prices last week. The InfoCrank was $2198 prior to 1 Dec. Prices in the US, Europe and UK were reduced 11-18%, but I’m guessing there will always be some buyers that want gold for the price of silver.

      • Alex

        What exactly makes this ‘gold’? That’s the part that I’m still attempting to wrap my head around. There are no conclusive studies out there that state this is more accurate than a PowerTap, Quarq, Rotor, Power2Max, etc. The only things I’ve heard is that “in theory the design should be more accurate.”

          • Alex

            Can you point to anything specific?

            • Haha read the review

              • Alex

                I read the review and there is nothing in it that makes me think this PM is worth what they are charging for it. DCRainmaker agrees it’s over priced.
                “Pricing: Up until this point, pricing is really the biggest challenge I’ve had with the Infocrank. It’s just priced too high ($1,750USD), no matter how you slice it. However, in my discussions with Verve over the last few days, they plan to announce a global price restructuring (read: getting cheaper) in the next few weeks. Given that, I’m optimistic /hopeful that they’ll address my main concerns here.”
                Their 10% drop is not enough. If they priced this around $1,000USD I would see people going for it.

                • CC

                  With you Alex, it’s a silly conversation. The industry is still competing on accuracy, when the main audience wants access via lower cost. I guess we have to wait until people figure that out- :)

                • I think the price is fair. It probably also serves to separate the wanna-bes from the gonna-bes. With my background in research, I know that accurate instrumentation attracts a premium, but I’m not going to risk my effort with anything less. And while these instruments may needs to be over-serviced and re-calibrated, nobody in the lab is willing to take the risk on using anything less than ideal. So it goes for human performance at the sharp end of the sport, and presumably that’s why SRM is a success. SRM’s cranks retails for twice the price of the InfoCrank yet offer the same accuracy, so Verve deserves to be praised for their pricing. No, they won’t be bringing accurate power measurements to the average rider, but there’s nothing in their marketing that suggests they were ever aiming for that.

          • inopinatus

            There’s no-one you should trust less than DC Rainmaker. His articles are a travesty of statistics and measurement.

            • Hahahaha gold inopinatus
              Alex the review clearly states that the unit is very accurate and doesn’t seem to be affected by temperature or other external factors. You are all hung up on the price and seem to be not so concerned with any thing else. My suggestion is that you don’t buy one ;)

              • Alex

                And Sky has Stages with a tour under their belt. Just because a team is sponsored by a product doesn’t mean it’s good.

        • The test results are quite compelling, but strictly speaking, only applies to the single crank arm that was tested. Unfortunately, while the errors are noted for each weight in each test, there’s no indication of the direction they occurred. Was it random fluctuation about the mean? Or was it consistently over or under? And did it change over the weight series?

          Regardless, it’s more data than I’ve seen provided by any other powermeter brand. Of course, it’s not the same as peer-reviewed research, which still holds SRM as the clear leader but there are caveats, where calibration of the crank is key. The British Cycling Federation determined that their SRM cranks had to be calibrated every six months to meet their testing needs. Even with the gold standard, they were experiencing data drift in their longitudinal studies, and noticing considerable variation between cranksets. But these guys are working in the realm where they need maximum accuracy, precision, and resolution. I’m told that they’ve not seen any of the same variation with the InfoCranks, but to be certain, wait until they publish their data.

          When put up against all the other powermeters on the market, the InfoCrank qualifies as gold on the basis of its claimed accuracy. I’d also give them gold for its serviceability, since there’s nothing to attend to other than the batteries. At this point, you would probably like to see some comparative testing performed by an independent lab, and maybe the results would improve your confidence in the product. If that kind of data is truly important to your buying decision, then you should pursue it yourself, so you can keep the cranks that perform the best in your own study. It doesn’t matter how rigorous any other study is, the data will not apply directly to the cranks you decide to buy for yourself.

          If powermeter brands want to continue trading on accuracy as a commodity in the markeplace, then it would be nice to see validation certificates provided with every device that shows how each one performed during calibration.

          • Alex

            Precisely my point Matt! Each power meter is slightly different so you shouldn’t take InfoCrank’s claims above anyone else’s when it comes to accuracy.

            • JP

              Verve have published documentation that independently assessed their meter as a MAXIMUM error of .11nm at <17nm and a MAXIMUM error of .57% above 17nm. They then round these figures up for use in their marketing material. So when comparing this level of accuracy against say Stages, Quarq or Pioneer who claim +/- 2% accuracy without any independent testing, I think it's misleading to be saying that their claims of accuracy and level of accuracy are no greater than any other brand.

              In essence, it's like leveling criticism at a a company who makes scientific weighing equipment, who publishes their data for their customers, for being no more accurate than the digital scales that you can buy in a department store. If you just want to see if Christmas party season has added 1kg or 1.5kg to your body weight, sure the department store scales are fine. But if you are weighing chlorine to add to the water supply, you probably want the certified equipment for the job.

              An extreme example, perhaps…..but the reality is that even for an amateur masters athlete, that the result of months of hard may only be a few % difference in output. This focus on accuracy and consistency actually matters for the purpose the meter is intended for.

              • echidna_sg

                aka, the difference between accuracy and precision… things can easily be precisely and consistently inaccurate from a single measurement device and still meet your purpose as long as the inaccuracy doesn’t change due to such influences as temperature, elevation etc (you will still see the correct amount of change being measurable)… however this falls down when you want precise data across a group of devices…

  • bigstu_

    Pity they don’t offer 177.5mm and 180mm cranks to make them useful for time trialists and larger athletes. Considering these are low volume and CNC machined the tooling costs would’ve been too much of an impost. That they start at 155mm and scoped by the AIS makes me think they began life as a track specific item. No comments about the torsional stiffness (efficiency) of the cranks themselves? In the past I have had high $ CNC machined cranks that have flexed more than forged Dura Ace cranks.

    • I’m told there were a lot of requests from juniors and triathletes for the shorter lengths.

      No numbers on stiffness but the cranks are forged and the niches are machined.

    • winkybiker

      CNC is suitable for low volumes and prototyping, but forging like Shimano does it will result in a better product. Better than carbon, Shimano would say (and not without some justification). Big capital for the press, though. Interesting to see a small manufacturer using the technology – I’d guess they’re outsourcing production.

      • bigstu_

        Understand, that’s why I (mistakenly) assumed that they were machined. Matt has since put that mistake to rest. I’ve had a couple of pairs of Topline cranks in the past when I was young and chasing grams. But when I switched back to heavier, stiffer cranks I found myself climbing in a higher gear and going faster! Not all that glitters is gold…

  • Harry Hanley

    I’ve looked at a lot of power numbers from many
    different power meters from many different athletes. This device is the real
    deal and the choice we recommend at The Hurt Box.

  • harv

    nice, but frustrating for the average rider. Mass market is where there is a killing to be made in Powermeters. Come up with one that is ~$500, relatively accurate/ reliable, and you will sell container loads to the average joe racer, enthusiast, rider…….everyone knows this, its just a matter of the market finding the tipping point device/price…..

  • kaptanpedal

    Sold for 1600 Euros in Europe, don’t know why but should be 1300 Euros if converted 1-1.
    A decent pm is around 1000 Euros anyway and considering the lifecycle of a pm a difference of 300-500 Euros is not that much. If a compatible, rock solid product without any weaknesses or annoyances is sold for 1500 Euros I would buy it over a high maintenance cry baby selling for 900.

    Still no mtb model. Yes, mtb market is smaller but there is a real lack of compatible powermeters for mtb usage. SRM is the king with almost every model of crank available. However around 2200 Euros that is out of question for most users.

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