Sierra de Cazorla - Spain - wielrennen - cycling - radsport - cyclisme - Chaves Rubio Jhoan Esteban (Team Orica Greenedge)   pictured during La Vuelta 2015 Stage 6 from Cordoba to Sierra de Cazorla - photo Sabine Jacob/Cor Vos © 2015
  • Simon

    Not knowing the precinct in question in Brisbane it seems a step too far. Interestingly the TV footage showed cyclists riding carefully and not speeding. Will cyclists be greatly incovenienced by having to seek alternative routes? I wonder also at the motive of the justice involved, a case of extra judicial influence perhaps? It seems anti cyclist to me, any locals care to comment on the proposed ban?

    • rory

      Its a very wide and spacious square outside the supreme court building. going through it on a bike takes you from a pedestrian bridge over the river to one of the major roads in the city. It is a safe and convenient route and for the majority of the time of each day it is quite empty. It is quite a busy spot between 8 and 9 in the morning but where isn’t? In qld, footpaths are legal to ride on unless it is expressly forbidden and as long as you give way to pedestrians. It sounds to me like the judge is trying to make an argument against cycling based on where legal liability stands. It seems to me to be crystal clear. liability would attach to the cyclist if he or she collides with a pedestrian just the same as if a cyclist collides with a pedestrian on a footpath.

      • D-Man

        1) liability may attach to the pedestrian who moves without taking care into the path of the cyclist;
        2) the occupier of the location may also be responsible for a collision type incident if it’s aware of the issue eg: if the particular layout of the location invites risky conduct; yet fails to act (it any action is warranted);
        3) if a lawyer entering/leaving the courthouse gets struck by a cyclist, would anyone really give a $#%^!

        • D-Man

          Plus bonus points for taking down a judge??!!??

      • jules

        you’re not seeing it from the judge’s perspective, which is:
        1. is my liability increased by allowing cyclists on the square? (yes, potentially, to some degree – even if small)
        2. what do I lose if I ban them (nothing, I drive a BMW)

        legal answer: reduced liability available at no cost to myself = ban them

        the judge isn’t responsible for broader sustainable transport policy

        • Dave

          The transport minister does, however, have the power to decide transport policy. They could make a compulsory purchase of the land required (at a maximum cost of $1, given it would be from a fellow state government agency) and declare it to be a road – which would then allow them to use the existing Australian Road Rules to govern its usage.

          The ball is in the government’s court.

        • Dave

          The transport minister does, however, have the power to decide transport policy. They could make a compulsory purchase of the land required (at a maximum cost of $1, given it would be from a fellow state government agency) and declare it to be a road – which would then allow them to use the existing Australian Road Rules to govern its usage.

          The ball is in the government’s court.

      • Dave

        @rory – if it’s not a road, footpath or shared path then it is not governed by the road rules.

        Unless there is a precedent for assigning liability for cyclist-pedestrian collisions in non-road/footpath/shared path spaces, liability would be worked out for each case until a case got taken to a higher court and a precedent established.

    • jules

      this follows a spate of Supreme Court decisions to shut down roads in Brisbane, due to concerns that traffic on the roads meant that there was a possibility of a collision occurring on them. some motorists have complained they can’t actually drive more than 100m away from their homes anymore, but the SC judge made it clear that safety comes first.

      • Arfy

        To be precise, intersections. As the majority of accidents occur at intersections, they are all being shut down in the Brisbane CBD area. Some argued that only right-hand turns should be banned so you could at least drive around the block, but statistics showed a much lower crash rate if intersections were done away with altogether. Council is also considering banning infirm people from walking on footpaths, toddlers walking at all, and anyone caught walking while looking at an electronic device to serve overnight detention.

    • geoff.tewierik

      The email exchange quoted in the Channel 7 report is available here:

      http://rtidocs.justice.qld.gov.au/151584/151584_File01.pdf

      My regular work commute takes me straight through the courts precinct, the one both RideTheCity (which Brisbane City Council recommend for route planning) and Google Maps Directions shows me is the best route from north to south. Alternatives would mean a loop around the courts precinct, increasing my interaction with cars on road or alternatively pedestrians if I took to riding on the footpaths.

      If the shared bridge over Roma Street from the Magistrates Court to Roma Street Parklands was ever finished, the end of that bridge can be seen in the pic I’ve attached then riding through the Courts Precinct would still happen, just not outside the Supreme Court, seen to the right in that Street View pic.

      • jules

        what offence would be committed if cyclists rode during a ban though? can the land manager impose restrictions enforceable under the road rules? (e.g. riders dismount!)

        • geoff.tewierik

          As it’s not a gazetted road, road rules don’t apply. Near as we can tell, the Police could use this: Disobeying a no bicycles sign or marking on a road or footpath Queensland Road Rules— Section 252(1) $117, https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/fines/demerit/cycling/

          • Dave

            @geofftewierik:disqus – the Australian Road Rules only cover footpaths which run alongside gazetted roads, so that wouldn’t be an option.

            • geoff.tewierik

              I guess it’ll depend on where they end up putting the signage as we all have to go onto a footpath which runs alongside a gazetted road to access the precinct.

              • Dave

                But once you’ve entered the precinct you’re not on a footpath and you can get back on the bike again. I was partially responsible for having a short length of footpath at Oaklands Park (South Australia) declared a shared path by the local council purely to deal with that issue.

                They might not even be able to make a charge of common law trespassing stick if the route through the precinct is a public right of way, or if it is not but the cyclist promptly leaves the property when so directed. A council by-law might well be the only option, which would probably rule out police involvement.

        • Dave

          Common law trespassing would be the only option, I believe.

          The ideal response would be for the police (when called to deal with an ‘offender’) to reply that they are busy catching criminals and request the caller just take the offender’s rego plate number :D

          But would that spot be a Public Right Of Way? I don’t know if you can restrict cycling on a PROW which is not a gazetted road, but you certainly cannot enforce trespassing rules.

  • Jake(Aus)

    What a Vuelta Orica GreenEdge are having! I think it’s taken even them by surprise a bit. Absolutely fantastic after such a tough year. To me it shows what a great team ethic they have built up, to keep pushing on and on regardless of the adversity. Chaves and Ewan certainly look like they are going to be big stars in the near future.

    • Andy B

      The future is now in my eyes

      • jules

        sounds painful! ;)

        • Andy B

          The goggles do nothing!

  • DangerDirte

    I have to say: GreenEdge have something great going on! Love watching them and this Veulta has been a bit more special seeing the young guns kick some ass.

    • Michele

      A couple of weeks ago I was saying how dismal OGE have been this year. The wins have decreased – both in the number and the quality, but also in the amount of different riders to have won – each year since their inception.
      Having an Indian summer like this is just the fillip the team needs.

      • Dave

        I guess their Veulta is going Ok.

  • Michele

    Interesting repercussions with Nibbles.

    Not sure how serious he is [was] in contending the Worlds RR this year [I haven’t even looked to see if the Italians have formed a long-list, or even a final selection for it].

    But if he thought he could now just go and do some other races in prep for the Worlds, then he is definitely going to be a little annoyed. I must admit I knew Nibbles’ disqualification barred him from racing elsewhere until the Vuelta finished.

    Find it odd that neither he nor his team management were aware of this ruling. Unless they were just trying to make out they were oblivious to the rules in the hope he could race.

    • echidna_sg

      With a maximum fine of 1000chf, I’d say pay the fine and race anyway. His wages must be much much more than that…

      • jules

        he won’t get a start though

        • Dave

          Not if the owner of the race wants to have the UCI renew their event licence.

      • velocite

        But the penalty for racing anyway includes a 15 day suspension.

        • Dave

          Plus a referral to a UCI disciplinary hearing, for doing an even better job than the UCI of bringing the sport into disrepute.

    • peter UCI

      the rule is if you pull out due to sickness you can ask to start another race, if DQ’d then you cannot race another race whilst the original is still on. By the way Froome Dawg was DQ’d from the 2010 GIro for holding onto a car going up a mountain.

  • echidna_sg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qAkcHB8-2g
    stage 6 BSP is up now… another ripper!

    OGE just get interaction with their fans and really seem to know they are part of an entertainment industry. The sneak peaks behind the scenes and the sheer amount of fun the boys seem to have speak volumes for their distinctly aussie team culture.

    • Andy B

      haha hard to not smile when the camera is on Chaves,he always seems to be smiling
      Awesome BSP :)

  • Art Wetherall

    Good to see CBD transportation policy can be decided by one selfish person with influence.

    • Cameron Harris

      Seems about the same as in Sydney with the College Street cycleway.

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