Dugast_CX-1
  • Max

    I’d be working on a better name if I were in Dugast marketing. “Tubeless Tubular” sounds like it reduces to zero.

    • That’s something to think about when we clip in to our clipless pedals.

      • harv

        absolute gold Chris…i will pay that!

  • Stephen J Schilling

    It’s unfortunate that this is a Dugast advertorial. The aforementioned Tufo has been making these “new concept” road tubulars without an inner tube for over a decade. I have a pair of them now, and recently retired a 13 year old ‘backup’ tub from them that been sitting in storage. Not an inner tube in any of them.

    • RayG

      Logan has already run this story on his own blog. http://www.logandeborde.com/2016/02/01/dugast-cyclocross-tubular-update-new-tubeless-casing/

      So the churnalism begins?

      • Hi RayG, thanks for the feedback. Yes, Logan has run an article about the same topic at his blog, but I think you’ll agree that the two pieces are very different. Even if we had simply reproduced his piece (with permission), what’s the harm in republishing a good article to help it reach a bigger audience?

      • jules

        it’s not churnalism when they attribute it to the author anyway. have you read the Daily News digest? it’s not original content either.

    • Sean Doyle

      Tufo may have been making them but aside from few people they don’t have the best reputation. I am more surprised that other companies have taken so long to actually push this style of tire.

      • duckingtiger

        Agreed, particularly the Tufo quality part. Tufo is lacking in terms of ride quality and durability in many of their tubes model.

    • CyclingTips has no commercial arrangement with Dugast, nor does the author of the piece. As we’ve said many, many times before, if there’s a conflict of interest (or even a potential, perceived conflict of interest) that you need to know about, we’ll put a disclosure statement on the piece letting you know.

      • CC

        We know Matt, but the product is a bit of a joke. Sorry.

        • I disagree. I’ve been riding tubeless clinchers for a few years now and it’s the pinch-flat resistance of the system that is a clear strength. I’ve pinch-flatted a tubular before (from a pothole), and while I’ve not seen any data on the type of punctures that are suffered during the course of Paris-Roubaix, I’m guessing a lot of them are pinch-flats. A tubeless tyre is the obvious choice for an event like this but the pros want the weight savings that tubulars and tubular wheelsets offer (I expect many are reluctant to break from tradition as well).

          While it remains to be seen whether this road tyre will live up to its potential—I guess we’ll have an answer by mid-April—a product like this might do a lot to push tubeless tyre development forward. As an industry observer (read tech-geek) I find this aspect fascinating as road riders steadfastly adhere to what might otherwise be described as outdated thinking.

          • Paolo

            Not really in context of the article, but i remember reading an interview with Boonen where he says that many punctures in P-R happen because of cut sidewalls. However , i like the new concept from Dugast and yes Tufo’s would be nice option too if they would roll better.

            • I get the same report from my friend who raced P-R last season. They had a large number of flats do to cut sidewalls rather than the pinch flats you would expect.

          • CC

            Thanks Matt, your comment adds more context. Would like you to expand on your expectations, because I’m still stuck at a ~20g saving, for a potential loss of feel.. (vs. tubs)?

            • I think Dugast is hoping that there is no loss of feel… The materials and construction are different for the tubeless tubular, so side by side, who knows? In Logan’s original post http://www.logandeborde.com/2016/02/01/dugast-cyclocross-tubular-update-new-tubeless-casing/, he discussed that the CX tyres offered a different feel, but part of the reason was that CX riders like to use very low tyre pressures and are used to the tyre folding under the wheel. It is worth noting that Dugast have avoided adding rubber to the casing (the rubber tread is glued on top) to seal it, which typically deadens the feel of a tyre (especially noticeable for tubeless clinchers).

              • CC

                Good points, it’s also interesting in the context of Vittoria G+ tech, I guess we’ll see ! -:)

      • Stephen J Schilling

        I’ll take your word for it. But hopefully you can’t read this article and be unable to see where I am coming from. The twitter link I followed gave the appearance that this was “industry wide,” as opposed to it’s true state of being focused on a single brand or product. Do better.

    • MMaster

      I have no issue with Tufo tubulars….generally tough as nails….but…If you cut open your Tufo tire, you will find a tube.. During manufacture the tube is bonded to the carcass. This process probably has something to do with Tufo’s atrocious rolling resistance. What is being done here is a different process.

      • Stephen J Schilling

        That may be, and the article would have been better served by explaining that as well.

    • Logan DeBorde

      This piece came about because of pure bike geekery on my part. In my blog post linked below you’d read that I was inspired by the commentators on the english UCI feed of CX Worlds. No one in the media picked up the story within a few days so I used the only outlet I had, my blog. I used the contact form on Dugast’s website for a comment, expecting no response, but instead I got a call from the owner himself while I was at lunch one day. I had to try as hard as I could not to “nerd out” and not think about the fact I don’t have an international calling plan…

      Once I had some real information I sent an email to this site from the “Contribute” link in the footer as I’m a daily reader like y’all and I figured it is a story that could be told. This tire concept definitely isn’t new but the pedigree of Dugast is what really caught my interest. I have two sets of Tufo CX tires glued up right now but it’s hard for me to not yearn for a handmade tub.

    • Dominic

      Someone does not know how to read.

      Firstly the article states that Tufo have been making tubeless tubulars since 1991.

      Secondly the article mentions that these are made using a new manufacturing process and they that they have already been used on the World Cup scene in XC and CX.

  • Art Wetherall

    Can we just start calling these tub-tubs?

    • jules

      what about singles? they used to be called singles but these really are that.

  • jules

    I get suspicious when I hear them gloss over punctures. maybe they’ve not experienced any punctures, but meanwhile in the real world… we know sharp objects penetrate bike tyres (and tubes, but there are none here). sure gloop can plug the hole, but as I write this I can visualise people standing around spinning their wheel to get the gloop onto the outer section of the tyre and pumping it back up, only to spray everyone with gloop spewing out from the puncture site at high pressure :)

    • Logan DeBorde

      Yep, that’s exactly what happens on mountain bikes with tubeless tires, though people would be better served letting the sealant pool at the puncture. More often than not you can continue your ride pretty quickly so I think it’s worth it.

      • jules

        it’s the ‘More often than not’ bit that concerns me. having a spare tube handy is a more-or-less foolproof way of getting going again.

        • Logan DeBorde

          Yeah, on the MTB today you just pop in a tube if the sealant fails. Can’t say if tubs will ever get to the point where it can be your only tire type.

        • CapeHorn

          Depends on how you use tubs. If you are of the opinion that tubs are for raceday, then these are fine, afterall, after apuncture, for most of us, that is any chance of winning over for the day.

        • philipmcvey

          Punctures are the real downside to tubs in my experience. Gluing them isn’t a chore and is actually quite therapeutic, they roll like a dream and they do ‘feel’ better than clinchers. As per below, though, a recent test on Bike Radar showed that most of the performance benefits we always thought we got from tubulars aren’t supported by the numbers. Yep, next pair of wheels I buy will be clinchers. I’ve had one too many long walks home with tubs.

    • Andy B

      you lost me at gloop

      • jules

        I can change

  • Ryan

    Actually Wout won worlds on the traditional dugasts – not these.

  • Grego

    I’d be interested in a comparison/contrast of these and the Schwalbe One tubeless clinchers. Here’s a starting question: why go with tubulars and the bother of glueing if you can get similar performance from a tubeless clincher?

    • philipmcvey

      Bike Radar (I think) ran a comparison in the last few months between clinchers and tubulars and concluded that with 25C Continental tyres on Enve rims the clinchers were faster in all conditions. It was a short test using power, but the numbers were clearly in favour of clinchers. I have a pair of Zipp 404 tubs – beautiful wheels which I bought very cheap second hand, but they are a pain in the backside when they flat. The Espresso foam just doesn’t work in my experience. I’d happily sell them and fork out a lot of extra cash for clinchers just to be able to fix them on the road. If these Dugasts can work as well as a tubeless clincher then maybe I’ll keep the tubs.

    • Tubular wheelsets always weigh less, and the tyres tend to as well, so racers will always want them (and if they have a team mechanic to take care of all the gluing, then there’s no downside). The argument over ride quality has lost much of its strength in recent years as clinchers have improved, but tubulars have consistently been more supple than clinchers, especially tubeless clinchers.

      • cnm

        FWIW, it is widely known that the current crop of high-end clincher tyres offer less rolling resistance than tubulars. One of the top reasons the pro riders (and mechanics) prefer tubulars is that if you flat, you can ride the tubular – not always so with a clincher.

  • Sean parker

    I’ve found that the best alternative to this conundrum is a product that I came across called ‘tubed – tubular tubeless’.

    It’s a toroidal rubber casing with a arch shaped extrusion on the outer diameter. Placed on the wheel, the only other item required for a stress free ride is the ‘tubeless – tubed’ tube, which inserts between the rubber toroid and the tyre.

    Amazingly, all that is then required is attachment to a pumpless – pump pumpumpulator.

    A few strokes, and some meaningless double negatives later, and you are on your way.

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