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  • Ragtag

    Thanks. Since you have tested so many ‘aero’ wheels, how did these compare with those? As a rider I have never really noticed any big benefit to be honest from any aero wheel, so personally I am not surprised that we don’t feel aero benefits till we are told that there is an X% benefit. Then we suddenly start feeling them. :) I think called Placebo or something. My experience on aero wheels is far limited than yours so will be keen to get your comparison.

    • Jay F.

      What have you ridden? 100% sounds like your experience is limited to non-aero wheels. Either that or you’re not paying attention. The aero effect of a *good* set of aero wheels sticks out like dogs balls.

      • Eat More Lard

        Is it the aero effect or a flywheel effect from the heavier rims? I have no experience of aero wheels so its an honest question, not an attempt to stir the hornets nest (talking of CK’s angry bees…)!

    • I’ve made some comparisons in the review above. I found that the ICW-58C wheelset was largely indistinguishable from Zipp Firecrest 404s, a wheel that is often held up as a good benchmark for aerodynamic performance. Both wheels offered more speed than the lower profile ICW-38C wheelset.

      If you’ve not really noticed any benefit of an “aero” wheel, then it might be because it wasn’t tall enough. In my experience, any rim less than 50mm can only offer marginal gains over low profile rims. Taller rims (>50mm) are much more obvious but you’ve got to be be travelling at race speeds (>35km/hr).

      • Ragtag

        Fair enough. Agree, I have mostly only ridden wheel depth of 40-42mm. Perhaps I should try a truly aero offering of 50-60mm.

      • Spider

        Completely agree Matt. go big or go home. and definitely the 35kph+….and knowing that my riding on the weekends is 32kph on the flats why do I bother with deep wheels? I think deep dish for fast training rides/racing and some shallow light weights for the long distances on the weekends is where I’ll end up. 404 for Tuesday/Thursday and 202 or equivalent on Saturday/Sunday

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    • pedr09

      When I got my first set of 50mm deep wheels, I was blown away by how much easier it was to keep up with my bunch. The faster the bunch went, the more the wheels seemed to perform.

    • George Darroch

      Aero is real. If you’re out of the bunch, most of your effort is pushing air, even up an incline. Spend less energy doing that and you’ll have either more speed or more energy left for climbing and sprinting.

      • Ragtag

        Yes but I am always looking at it from my body drag point of view. 80% of drag is your body. 20% is your bike. Maybe out of this 30% might be the wheels. That makes net effect of 6%. Then you will get the full 6% only if you choose the tire width flush with the wheel body. I have seen people riding fatter tires then the wheel width. This means they get less than the 6% possible. So now good +50mm deep wheels are usually USD 2000+. Yes for the racers it does make sense, but not sure for everyone.

        • Spider

          The crosswind argument was valid for the first few generation of carbon wheels….now tings like Enve SES and Zipp Firecrest means that the difference is negligible. I remember getting home after riding old generation reynolds and my triceps were sorer than my quads…from battling the front wheel! Now I ride 404’s and the only concern in gusty winds is some of the riders in the pack and their handling issues.

          • For 50mm or taller rims, crosswinds will always be a problem for the uninitiated. How much depends a lot on the steering of the bike. Quick turning bikes will require more effort, a point that was clearly demonstrated in my review of Canyon’s Aeroad CF SLX last year. The forks have two rake settings, “Stable” and “Able”, where the latter was a better choice and setting for windy days. https://cyclingtips.com/2015/10/canyon-aeroad-cf-slx-9-0-sl-review/

            • Spider

              just another reason to be late for a ride…’sorry guys…I had to change my fork from able to stable as I read on the BOM that winds were going to be 25kph and above’!

              It’s my first windy Autumn on the Zipp 404 and I’ve been really impressed by how they handle crosswinds. Even on a day like today were you know it’s going to have some wind they don’t cause any addition issues – just body profile and position vs the wind

  • The graphics are very close to Roval wheels. If given a glance from distance, I would guess a fair amount of riders would assume the wheels are Rovals, maybe until they heard the angry sound.

    Maybe you could start including a little Soundcloud -snippet to let us hear the angry roar, or gentle buzz of hubs that you test?

    • Andy B

      My first thought was “are these roval copies”

  • Marcus

    Are they louder than a Chris King freehub? I love a loud hub, but not sure I’d want any louder than my CK hub!

    • Yes, louder than a CK hub.

      • Lach

        Really? Jesus that’s loud. I dig it. The only problem is the person on the front huffing away can hear you free wheeling along for the ride!

        • Spider

          Tune’s are also much louder than CK. I have 2 sets of Tune, one CK and DT 240s. The Tune’s are rather aggressive, the CK’s…purr!

  • Oldan Slo

    ‘Good Stuff: CX-Ray spokes add durability’? What less durable spokes are used at this price point and how did you measure the difference in durability?

    ‘Bad Stuff: ‘? No mention of the very loud freewheel. If it causes you to change your riding style to avoid, then that is BAD.

    • It’s the very high tensile strength of the CX-Rays that makes the difference, and having plenty of experience with them, they’re an easy spoke to trust. But you’re right, I’m having trouble thinking of a wheel in this price range that doesn’t use high quality spokes.

      You’re also right about the loud freewheel, I’ll fix that up right now.

  • Connor

    I see that dhb (Wiggle) is now offering some low/mid/deep ‘budget’ carbon rims now under the ‘COSINE’ brand. After seeing so many c. $2k ’boutique’ rims launched in the last couple of years (Rail, Maker, Curve, Knight etc) …all with similar pros and cons ….cheaper than Zipp/Enve and not the risk associated with no-name Chinese/Taiwan wheels. It would be really interesting to investigate – even qualitatively – the difference between these ‘budget but not bogus’ rims from a big industry brand vs. the above..at $950 AUD vs $2k….v. interesting.

    • I’m waiting on one or two sets of Cosine wheels to review for exactly that reason.

  • roklando

    Wish I could afford them…(starts crying).

  • Cary Sun

    Irwin awesome, but over the past decade, the global mainstream, especially carbon fiber bike wheels OEM foundry had move to China, Xiamen, Fujian, Xiamen (eg http://www.carbonwheelfactory.com) currently has the world’s carbon fiber wheels up to the most sophisticated OEM chain

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