SRAM has officially announced a new hydraulic disc brake-compatible version of its groundbreaking Red eTap wireless groupset.
  • winkybiker

    The adjustable contact “feature” seems of marginal utility, given that it doesn’t adjust pad clearance from the rotor. Why would I ever want the lever to move other than a set minimum distance before engaging the brakes? What’s the point of the free travel? I just don’t get it. It is NOTHING like the barrel adjuster on conventional calipers which does actually adjust the pad clearance. Now THAT would have been useful to eliminate the scourge of rotor rub. Another epic fail by Sram engineers.

    • James Huang

      Pad contact is just as important as lever reach, in my opinion, especially if a long stock lever throw prevents a short lever reach (as is currently the case). It’s something I wouldn’t do without on a mountain bike.

      • winkybiker

        Yeah, I get that you need short throw for short reach to work. But why would you ever want long throw? Why not just make the free-travel/lever throw short but fixed?

        • James Huang

          It’s really just a matter of personal preference. While I prefer a short lever throw, for example, someone else might not. The important thing at this level is to provide that option, which up until now hasn’t existed on the road

          • winkybiker

            I’ll take it as a possible that someone might want long-throw before the brakes engage. For me, the only reason I want any free-play at all before the brakes come on is to ensure my pads don’t rub. Otherwise, the shorter the better.

      • Jonathan Wilkinson

        IT’s something I’ve always done without on a mountain bike, but always wished I had.

  • winkybiker

    No reason to think the new hood design will make its way onto the (hideous) mechanical shifters. These have switches in them, the mechanical ones have mechanisms. Why would they fit in the same space?

    • James Huang

      SRAM’s DoubleTap mechanism is different from eTap, of course, but it’s also much smaller than many people realize. It wouldn’t be easy to replicate the smaller size of eTap in a cable actuated shifter but it shouldn’t be impossible.

      • winkybiker

        Hey James. Do you see an issue with the “identical action for opposite effect” shift logic of eTap front shifting? Say I approach a steep ramp late in the day. Terrain is rolling, I’m tired and I forget what ring I’m in (no way to know or test without looking down). I think I’m in 50×19 but am actually in 34×13 (same ratio). I go to throw it on the small ring and it dutifully shifts me to the big one. I was looking for a 34×19 but am now in a 50×13 and more-or-less grind to a halt. Two separate shifts to recover. It can’t just be me who sees this as an issue.

        • James Huang

          I’ve been on eTap for a few months now and it hasn’t been an issue for me (at least not yet). I’ve also been regularly switching between eTap, Di2, and EPS and to be honest, I think I’m leaning toward eTap in terms of ease of use.

          • winkybiker

            Thanks.Interesting. Maybe just knowing the consequences of messing it up mean that you subconsciously pay more attention to which ring you’re in and therefore get it right most (all?) of the time. But you’ve never shifted the wrong way by accident?

            How often do you look down to check? I don’t mind a quick glance when riding with some space around me, but when in a tight bunch, I’m reluctant to divert my attention. I sometimes “test” by pushing gently on the upshift lever ahead of the climb, just to check which ring I’m in and plan the shift for the upcoming ramp. With eTap, no such test is possible.

            • James Huang

              I’m certainly not going to say that I have *never* mis-shifted on eTap but it’s been very infrequent and I haven’t done it in a critical moment on a climb (yet). You’re definitely right that you can’t check what ring you’re in like with a mechanical drivetrain, and I do the same thing. I do glance down on occasion with eTap but not much at all. And although there are duplicate gear ratios, my guess is that you can probably ‘feel’ the difference between being in the big ring vs. and equivalent ratio in the small ring like I can.

              In any event, I suppose it’s possible that I’m just keeping better mental tabs of what ring I’m in but I honestly can’t say for sure.

              • winkybiker

                It’s interesting about “feeling” the difference in chainrings, even at the same ratios. I can only do that if I’m severely cross-chained on big-ring big-sprocket when there will be a slight whirring vibration and noise (due to the combination of angle and very tight chain). I do also know if I’m getting small-small cross chained, because the front derailleur will rub, but that’s not a useful clue with Etap. Otherwise, all ratios run smoothly and I really can’t tell which ring I’m in for the middle ratios.

                • Steve G

                  If you were worried, I guess Di2 would be the way to go as they have a little doohickey that will report to your head unit what gear/ratio you’re in.
                  Sure beats looking between the legs!

                  • winkybiker

                    It’s not really a problem with Di2 (or any other system) as there is one button to shift to the big ring and a different button to shift to the small ring. With Di2, pushing the wrong button just does nothing (and you shift at the back instead), whereas with eTap, pushing levers actually shifts you the opposite way to what you expected (and you now have two shifts to recover). Seems to me that this is a bad thing. But it seems that it is, in fact, just me who is concerned.

                    • James Huang

                      Nope, I wouldn’t say that it’s just you that’s concerned. As I said, I’m not going to say that I’ve *never* shifted the wrong way. It just hasn’t been nearly as significant an issue as I suspected it could be.

                  • James Huang

                    SRAM eTap will do the same thing with compatible computers.

            • Saeba R.

              Being able to remember or sense what chain ring you is a skill that most non-novice cyclists have. It’s a good one to have in the arsenal. Nice to have both options.

              • winkybiker

                If you have never forgotten what gear you are in, you’re not riding hard enough! :0

                • Saeba R.

                  Well when I’m going hard unless its up a long berg then I’m always in the big dog!

                  • winkybiker

                    You don’t live where I do, then!

                    • Saeba R.

                      Saeba R. is a man of mystery who has lived and hunted in many places.

            • Secret CritPro

              If you are that worried, put the gear info on your head unit! I have been using etap for 6 weeks now, no issues whatsoever, and I believe it’s harder coming from double tap to learn this, and it’s easy.
              Seriously if you don’t know what ring you are in, and you think that 53/19 is gonna bring you to a standstill, go compact.

              • winkybiker

                I don’t have a head unit. I don’t know where you live but there are plenty of hills around here that would bring even strong riders to a near standstill in a 50×19!

                • Dave

                  If you’re on a steep enough hill that you come to a stand with a 53×19 ratio, the problem is not going to be solved by just changing the big ring on the front.

                  • winkybiker

                    Read my original note. When you shift the wrong way, you expected a 34×19 but got a 50×13 instead. Quite the difference when the road has just kicked up. OK, you’re stronger than me, I get it; but for me, it would be quite a shock.

                    • Dave

                      Well no, I meant that if you’re coming to a standstill with a 19 you should get a more suitable cassette for the job or change into the small ring because you’re not Eddy Merckx.

                      I see your point about the eTap double shifting now. It would make an interesting case study in ergonomics, but until then I’ll stick with mechanical Chorus.

                    • winkybiker

                      We’re all agreed. Look, it may not be a actual issue for most, but I am distrustful of ergonomics that have systems do opposite things for identical actions, depending on memorized initial conditions. Error prone. And I’ll stick with my mechanical Super Record.

  • Kieran Degan

    Is it possible to make braking wireless with the fluid kept in the calipers?

    • James Huang

      Is it possible? Probably. But is it a good idea? I don’t think so. Even disregarding the reliability question, I’m not sure people would be willing to give up the lever feedback.

      • Robert Merkel

        Also, not a mech eng but I’d reckon the servos required to apply that much pressure, in that much of a hurry, would have to be pretty powerful (and thus quite weighty and possibly electricity-hungry).

        • Arfy

          Actually Siemens VDO (now Continental) designed a servo-driven system for cars using a “wedge” mechanism, the rotation of the disc helps apply braking pressure:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KMdT3iaFdQ

          But certainly reliability of communications is the big issue for wireless braking, you’d know all about it if the RF frequency was blocked.

          • James Huang

            Interesting. That very much reminds me of the old Pedersen SE cantilever brakes that Suntour once used on its top-end XC Pro mountain bike group ages ago.

    • winkybiker

      Misses the point of hydraulic brakes which is that the brake lines are frictionless.

    • pamountainbiker

      Wireless brakes wouldn’t need hydro lines, they would however be comparatively heavy due to built in redundancy that would need to be there. There are prototype auto brake by wire systems now, and feedback is artificially built in, but no system that is commercially deployed. There are however for reference completely steer by wire systems in use by Infiniti and recently recalled BTW. I for one would never, ever go for a wireless brake system. Ever. And I don’t think any cycling company is large enough to shoulder the potential legal liability of such a system. Psychologically, I’m not sure any consumer would go for this idea either.

      • H.E. Pennypacker

        The first thing out of my month as an attorney to a cycling company client looking at wireless brakes would be, “As your counsel I’m going to have to advise against that. Strongly.”

  • velocite

    I’m guessing nothing’s been said about WiFli for eTap..

    • James Huang

      Not yet, no.

  • Avuncular

    “As compared to the current hydraulic disc-compatible Red 22 HRD levers for mechanical drivetrains, the wireless Red eTap HydroHC is far more elegant.” Amen to that. The first iteration was not a good design resembling an elephant in profile. Over to Shimano now to get their wireless system to market.

  • AMK3072

    First recall in 5, 4, 3…

    • Amyllim3

      “my room mate Lori Is getting paid on the internet $98/hr”…..!ti945ur

      two days ago grey McLaren. P1 I bought after earning 18,512 Dollars..it was my previous month’s payout..just a little over.17k Dollars Last month..3-5 hours job a day…with weekly payouts..it’s realy the simplest. job I have ever Do.. I Joined This 7 months. ago. and now making over hourly. 87 Dollars…Learn. More right Here !ti945u:?:?:.?.?.?.? http://GlobalSuperJobsReportsEmploymentsSwissGetPay$98Hour…. .????????????????????????????????????????????????????::::::!ti945o….,…

  • TheTallCyclist

    I assume a hydraulic rim version is forthcoming or the levers can just be paired with any of the sram HRR calipers? This+WiFli is a dream come true and what I have eagerly been waiting for!

    • James Huang

      SRAM won’t say officially either way but yes, it sounds like there’s a new version on the way.

    • Claude Biron

      I got a message from SRAM saying eTap hydro disk levers are absolutely NOT compatible with rim lever and that “there will never be a rim version”. Go figure!?

      • TheTallCyclist

        Strange indeed, it’s just pushing some fluid around, worked with the mechanical levers no problem. HRR are a big upgrade especially given that SRAMs cable rim brakes really leave something to be desired. Well it is a project and I have the bleed kit and will give it a go if/when the stuff becomes available and such.

  • Jonathan Wilkinson

    Is there any info (haven’t checked) as to whether there’ll be a partial upgrade groupset available for someone with Red Hydraulic mechanical? I guess I’d need the shifters and F/R derailleur… and nothing else? Brakes should work the same once plumbed in?

BACK TO TOP

Pin It on Pinterest

17 NEW ARTICLES
December 7, 2016
December 6, 2016
December 5, 2016