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June 28, 2017
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  • Ajh

    Regarding the Pinerello electronic suspension, the first electronic dampening system I saw was the K2 Smart shock in 1999. Got to wonder where it is going as I prefer to see Rider vs Cobbles rather than Tecnology vs Cobbles

    • Wily_Quixote

      I agree.

      I really wish that they would allow the riders to race without tyres on their rims. I really hate the technological advantage that this brings to the race. Lets really see rider vs cobbles.

      • Velt

        Make em run it barefoot imo

        • David Everett

          We’ve seen Froome do this and it’s not pretty ;)

      • DaveRides

        Sky tried that with their Pinarello bikes in a TTT just before the cobbled classics.

        The results showed they needs a bit more work before taking it across to harder races.

    • Marcus

      that Pinarello is one ugly bike imho…

    • Superpilot

      They outlawed electronically reactive suspension in F1, however this has a mode still chosen by the rider. I am not sure Moscon finished on his elec sus bike. Just a different way of allowing flex compared to thin stays, I’m not sure it will catch on, but if Stannard hadn’t flatted out, it may have been a different story.

  • Alex

    How will the peloton deal with disc brake neutral wheel support? Even if you are on the same axle and rotor size standard, wouldn’t all the rotors have to trued to the same place? This would be effectively impossible. From my experience switching discs is a lot harder due to the smaller amount of space between the pads and the disc. With a rim brake you can always move it with your hand and open up the release a bit if need be.

    • James Huang

      That’s a question that remains to be answered.

      Everyone has settled on 12mm thru-axles and 160mm rotors on both ends, but you’re absolutely right that the tolerances are too tight for guaranteed drag-free running. Individual teams can shim all of their wheels to match, but neutral support will likely still be an issue.

      • Alex

        I bet the team mechanics are gonna *love* doing that job.

      • zinj

        Hard to tell, but looks like 140mm on the Giants, definitely 140mm on the KTMs

        • James Huang

          Needless to say, this is something that is still in process. Just because there’s a tentative agreement on those sizes doesn’t mean that everyone has to abide by them. Deviating from those sizes just means there will be no neutral support available.

          • zinj

            Exactly. Until these specs are all agreed upon, it’ll be hard to get all teams/riders on board.

      • Sunny Ape

        Shim their wheels? If you are adding a shim, something’s wrong!
        Attaching a rotor to a hub is just like putting on a gear cassette. You trust that the manufacturer has manufactured it to the standard and it will just be where it’s supposed to be and align with the derailleur. If it’s not, there is sufficient tolerance in the design to cope with the minor variation. Neutral service can no more ‘guarantee’ a drag-free disc / pad interface they they can ‘guarantee’ a perfect rear derailleur / cassette alignment for every wheel they carry… there is always going to be a little variation but the system is designed to copy with that. It’s no big deal.

        • James Huang

          Specifications on bicycles are virtually never +/-0; there are always allowable tolerances. There’s little wiggle room even on the brake models with more generous pad clearances, so into doesn’t take much variation to throw things off.

          • Sunny Ape

            Exactly. Unless the hub + disc on the wheel was so far out of tolerance compared to the standard that the wheel couldn’t be inserted, why worry? The possibility of that happening on a neutral service wheel are the same probability that you’ll be given a wheel with a cassette + hub combination that stopped you from being able to change gears or get into top or bottom gear.

            Again, having a disc brake wheel that is a bit ‘thrown off’ or ‘out of variation’ causes only one thing…. a bit of pad rub. If the pros understand they could receive a neutral service wheel that might have a bit of pad rub, they’ll probably accept it in the same way they accept the wheel they receive might have a wider tyre, a lower tyre pressure, more spokes, higher friction bearings than their original wheel…. all things that might slow them down just as much as a pad rubbing.

            • James Huang

              Even on a hydraulic disc brake setup that has been ideally set up, the gaps between the pads and rotor are very small. It doesn’t take much of a variation in rotor position for there to be some rub.

      • Angel Jaffe

        Are we sure that 160mm rotors (front and rear) are going to be the standard going forth? I read an article that 160mm was only the temporary “neutral” rotor size carried by the UCI neutral support. The UCI is supposed to be collecting data from teams throughout the course of the disc brake trial, and THEN decide on what the front and rear standard should be set at.

        I have used both 140mm and 160mm hydraulic discs on my road and CX bike, and I find 160mm to be overkill except for the steepest of descents, and even then I am not needing that much power.

      • Superpilot

        I thought all disk hubs were spaced the same for the same standard, therefore theoretically a disk will be in the same place for a given standard. What they need to design is a caliper/lever with a logarithmic progression, allowing them to have a much wider gap in the caliper and pads, rather than a few mm, more like 3-5mm each side. Then the initial pull to the disk is quick, with the motion slowing and force increasing the further the lever is pulled from there.

        • James Huang

          That sounds nice in concept, but it isn’t compatible with how modern hydraulic disc brake systems are designed.

          Nearly every manufacturer prefers to use so-called open hydraulic systems, where the fluid is allowed to expand into an open area (usually separated by a rubber bladder so as to prevent air from leaking into the system) to allow for heat-induced changes in volume. Open hydraulic systems also automatically adjust for pad wear. As a negative, though, the amount of pad retraction is limited to how much the seals around the caliper pistons can “roll back” when you release the lever.

          What you’re describing would only work with a closed hydraulic system, or a mechanical one, at least as far as pad clearances go. Shimano also employs such a setup in its Servo Wave mountain bike brakes, but it only affects how far the lever travels and how much mechanical advantage the lever has once the pads contact the rotor, not how much clearance there is between the pads and rotor.

    • Sunny Ape

      The word impossible seems a little dramatic. All rotors should be in the same place, give or take the usual little bit due to manufacturing and assembly tolerances. I can swap my three disc brake wheelsets between my two bikes and the tiny amount of difference in disc, pad and caliper clearance is of negligible effect. Yeah, I might get a bit of intermittent pad rubbing for a few Kms, but a few applications of the brakes settles things down. The new Dura Ace calipers have wider inter-pad spacing to allow for just this scenario and it will probably trickle down to all the other groupsets next year. Sure, there still is no standard rotor diameter, but that’s no big deal for neutral service to deal with until the peleton agrees… they carry wheels with both 140 and 160mm rotors.
      Neutral service had all these same problems when axles widths increased from 125 to 130mm. Now 135mm is common on road bikes and the same issue is happening again. It’s no big deal, they just carry what needs to be carried.

  • Holby City

    Scott make the ugliest of bikes it has to be said.

    • Andy B

      I think you misspelt *Fastest

    • MadBlack

      Nope that title clearly goes to Pinarello!

  • Angel Jaffe

    The big trend seems to be that disc brakes allows the use of bigger tires since there is no rim brake caliper to interfere with the tire. But can’t the manufacturers just make the carbon fork box crown area thinner and wider, like the wide and flattish box fork crowns on the steel bikes of the 70s and 80s? Those race bikes of that era could clear 28mm tires with fenders easily, and most could clear 32mm tires. Making the fork’s crown area both thinner and lighter would allow the fork to retain a shortish axle-to-crown height. And having a 32mm tire seems like that would be a lighter and better advantage than the heavier rear Pinarello and front Specialized stem shock absorbers.

    And about the shimming issue on disc bikes to make different sets of wheels line up easily after wheen changes… Can’t the UCI or manufacturers just set a number specification of where the disc must sit out from the center of the hub??? And then Shimano and SRAM can build more adjustability to open the disc pads further out to accommodate any slight variation between discs from different wheelsets??? This just seems like these issues should take about a half hour to iron out in a meeting between the manufacturers and UCI in about 1 hour, instead of spread out over many years.

  • Superpilot

    Wait, you have said the Specialised teams were riding re-treaded FMB’s again, whereas I have seen news that this was supposed to be an all new Specialised only product/version of their Turbo cottons without the FMB casing? Which is true?

    Also, any stats on what teams punctured most, and what teams with disks needed neutral service?

    Finally, is there anything stopping a guy with a disk bike taking a rim braked wheel from neutral as a stop gap until they can get a disk wheel or new bike from their team car? I.e. rules around brakes must be available at both ends?

    I’ve always said for neutral service they can always set the rules for disk and non disk bikes to have the same hub spacing and clearance for disks. Then neutral service can simply carry wheels with a rim braking surface and a disk on the hub. So a rim bike will be able to take it but just have the disks rotating around. And the disk bike can have it and just not use the rim brake surface.

    • David Everett

      All I had to go on regarding the tubulars is what one of the team mechanics told me. I’ve seen the same info on the new tubulars too. I’ll ask about and find out for you.
      Stats on teams with the least or most punctures may be hard to come by, I’m guessing unless they’ve had an amazing Roubaix with few problems they won’t want to release that info.

  • WarwickBoy

    What happened to that on-the-bike automatic chain lubricator that Orica-Scott were supposed to be running? If any race would be a good place for that stupid thing, you’d think a dry dusty Paris-Roubaix would be it!

    • David Everett

      They had it on one bike, but not Hayman’s.

  • Eric

    Are you guys going to cover Terpstra’s header over the bars due to an apparent failure of his Roubaix’s Future Shock?

    • James Huang

      Working on it…

  • ebbe

    I was surprised Delko Marseille Provence KTM didn’t use the CX version of the Revelator, the Canic. It has the same exact geometry, but a 1cm longer chain stay (and therefore a 1cm longer wheel base) and space for wider tires. Both would seem like an advantage for Paris Roubaix.

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